Oh Hell No!!

Aug 27, 2016

Kristen W.

Lol Shaina's video is great. Reminds me of one Jackie Aina did awhile back.

I like how heidi said thats how she bakes her client's face. SMH... There is nothing wrong with admitting your just an enthusiast. I don't know why they always feel the need to talk about these imaginary clients. lol

Aug 28, 2016

Dana E.

I have to say I have tried baking so many times because of YT and always get frustrated that it doesn't give me that undereye flawless look that they claim. I'm starting to catch onto Youtubers and how most of them aren't certified.

What makes no sense to me is exactly what you mentioned before... They are enthusiasts. I've never even heard of Jaclyn Hill working on a client before or anything like that. It even says under some of her videos "I am no longer booking clients" which seems odd to me?

Aug 28, 2016

Alexis C.

As someone who's part of the beauty community I've never claimed to be a professional. I'm very honest with my viewers and have said in videos that I'm not a professional and I consider myself a "beauty guru" with quotes and all. I think it's very misleading for these other makeup enthusiasts to give the false sense that they're professionals. Also a lot of these "professionals" think they're professionals just because they've worked for MAC or Sephora.

Aug 28, 2016

Kristen W.

What's really strange is I can't think of any other profession that has had this happen. Could you imagine if people tried pretending to be doctors or something? It wouldn't fly but for some reason these people keep getting away with it. The other day I saw at least 20-30 comments from people on instagram saying "13 year old MUA check out my channel" or "16 year old MUA..." how can you be under 18 and be a MUA? That just doesn't make sense...

I've been on youtube for over a year but I have always said that I'm aspiring to be a makeup artist and that the experience I do have working on clients isn't enough to call myself a makeup artist by any means. If anybody does call me a MUA I always correct them. There is no reason to pretend to be something I'm not.

Even if I had worked at Mac or Sephora I still don't think I'd be comfortable calling myself a MUA. Those stores teach what you need to know to sell product but they seem to leave a lot out. Especially when it comes to less is more.

I just wish there was something other than the FTC that would hold people accountable on youtube and other social media sites. The FTC does crack down on smaller channels but the big ones seem to get away with everything.

Aug 28, 2016

Alexis C.

I think they can get away with it because people don't really think to question them, their experience, or their credentials. Also a young viewer is just going to believe anything anyone says, it took me awhile to realize these "professionals" are really just enthusiasts.

People don't realize that MAC and Sephora are more about retail sales than actual makeup artistry. They're businesses selling products just like any other store and they'll probably hire someone with retail experience and no makeup experience over someone with makeup experience but no retail experience but that's just my opinion.

I think the bigger you are the more people have your back and treat you better, and I think that can be said about any industry

Aug 28, 2016

Kiran T.

I completely agree with you as well @Alexis What is sad about working for a company like Sephora is that even though I was able to receive training as someone who had no makeup experience, the focus was always how much I can sell and how many more clients we can get to. I became so passionate about makeup while working there and giving every bit of knowledge I had to anyone I came across. But I'd get in trouble for spending too much time with clients. I don't work for the company anymore after almost 3 years. I've learned a lot about artistry (I was never taught these YouTube trends) but I also learned that it would never have been a long term job for me. Also because I'm a social work grad student lol.

Aug 28, 2016

Kitty K.

The Beauty industry is large, in demand, and continues to grow. IG/YT is the easiest way for these companies to promote. I just think about how much money these companies make on creating a commercial, using a model or actor, pro artist, designers, editors, etc. vs just sending a box of goodies to be promoted.
Send a YT/IG gratis for a good word, and every girl flocks like crazy to buy that product.
If I had a company, I would too send my products out to these big youtubers.

Anastasia Beverly Hills is a great example. I can't recall ever seeing her in a commercial on TV, I knew her name as it was mentioned once in a magazine, where Megan Fox dubbed her the Eyebrow Queen years ago. When I saw her products pop up on YT, all I kept thinking was.. Isn't that the lady that does eyebrows for celebrities??
ABH is praised everywhere now, and I still haven't seen a commercial.
It wouldn't surprise me if these big YTers had the help of these companies to get any legal eyes off their backs... they're a good investment at a cheap cost. Most girls feel more relatable to them, even though it's just as fake as TV commercials. (Maybelline, with your mascara... I know those are false lashes on Gigi Hadid, dang it :| ) It's all a matter of being informed as we can be, which inspired this post. Been seeing so many baking questions being asked by our younger audience, and while some of us are just BL veterans who know the silliness of it all, I like to bring it up time and time again, and hopefully stir up some convo and get these girls thinking too ☺

Aug 28, 2016

Jacqueline H.

Interesting turn, and I think this will be debated until the end of time. Is makeup an art, and can anyone call themselves a makeup artist? I suppose so, but does that make it so? Does than mean that they can work on a professional level? No. Most, and I did say 'most' YouTube Gurus and Instagramers only know how to do one or two things well. Does that make them an artist? Sure, on their own faces. In my opinion, it seems to me that so many people have a very definite opinion about what makes one a makeup artist and what doesn't make one a makeup artist. Let's face facts, there are some YouTube Guru's out there that are just giving out horrible advice and showing people how to do things that can and will physically hurt people. It's not their fault...some of them don't know any better; however, there should be some accountability. I've seen SFX and standard beauty videos on YouTube that could gravely injure someone, but people seem to follow without question, and if one does not exercise good judgement, where does it start and where does it end? The fact is this...There are some really good YouTuber's, but that is what they are... YouTube Guru's. That doesn't mean they know any more about makeup on any level than anyone else. Some of them like to think they do, and that is what I find very frustrating. There's this weird fractured line between professional makeup artists and popular YouTubers, and it just does not need to be that way. What a professional artist does and what a YouTube Guru does are 2 very different things.

All of this goes back to credentials and certification, etc. etc.... Okay, very valid points; however, different states and different countries have different requirements and standards that one has to meet to be able to work professionally. Not everyone either can or wants to go to a professional school, and there are some really good self taught artists out there; however, if one does want to, or cannot go to school, just be more selective about who you choose to watch. There is so much more to being a professional artist than being able to slap a bunch of glitter on the eyes with double stacked lashes and 5 pounds of contour product. If you want to make a living, you have to know how to do more than the drag/stage makeup that is so prevalent on both of these social media platforms. You need to learn how to do standard beauty, bridal, stage and theater, fantasy, high fashion/editorial, makeup for film and television, black and white, airbrush and character. Each of these 'types' of makeup have their own techniques that set them apart from the other, and to work consistently requires that you know how to apply the aforementioned. In school, you will also learn color theory, sanitation, lighting and photography, how to handle yourself on a set, how to join the Union (if that is something that interests you) and how to market yourself. It is sooo worthwhile, and if anyone wants to be a professional artist, a formal education is something one should think about doing.

Billy B. and Kevin James Bennett are not formally trained artists; they are completely self taught, and individuals like these are the ones we should really be admiring and looking to for inspiration; especially if one wants to become a professional. Both of them worked at makeup counters. So before anyone goes discounting working for Sephora or a counter line, think of Billy and Kevin. They are both very vocal about where and how they got their start. True, it is all about sales; however, there's some real time experience to be had if you really keep an open mind.

Now taking into account what Kitty did here; if someone baked like that on lets say a television shoot, they would be told to pack it up. A professional artist would never do that to the talent's face. For the most part, powder = texture on the skin, and with HD resolution, it's all about particle depth. HD application/technique is very different than how an artist would apply makeup for more traditional photography. Something like this could fly back in the days of analog, but HD, no way. Most of these 'baking' pics and videos we see are highly suspect, and do not give an accurate representation of what the end result will look like on the skin. When this type of application breaks down (and it will from either heat or the natural oils on the skin), there is no going back...that application will be past the point of no return. There is no fixing that. It's time to wash, prep, and start all over. Makeup is an art, but like Kevin James Bennett so wisely said:

"Those of you that argue, "it's creativity," and, "there are no rules in makeup," - you need to take that excuse elsewhere. There are fundamental techniques and theories that working, professional makeup artists are required to follow (for liability purposes). Tell me you'd be willing to PAY a makeup artist to;

1) Roll a deodorant stick or men's after-shave balm on your face as a primer.
2) Slather 1/4" of foundation on your face (in the wrong shade/undertone).
3) Come at you with a kitchen knife or some other sharp object to do contouring.
4) Use baby powder or all-purpose flour to set your makeup.
5) Use hair weave glue to attach your false eyelashes.
6) Draw on an eyebrow larger than a human finger.
7) Use a suction tool to plump your lips (and possibly break blood vessels).
8) Apply lipstick made of melted crayons and lip balm.
Seriously, you'd let a PAID professional makeup artist do these things to you? If you say yes, you're either a fool or a liar."

AMEN brother. :)

The bigger you are the more people have your back and treat you better? I don't know if I would agree with that. I have seen people completely rip Kevin James Bennett to shreds for simply questioning someone's technique, and that is just not acceptable to me. This man is a 2 time Emmy award winning makeup artist, and people want to tear him up on YouTube all of the time. He didn't get those 2 Emmy awards by saving up box tops; the man knows how to apply makeup. It has gotten so bad that he has even taken to drawing Devil Horns and a pitchfork on his own photo. The man has a great sense of humor, but he is so disrespected sometimes that I just can't stand to look at it. Believe it or not, YouTube Guru's get more respect than we do. Go on Facebook and YouTube... you'll see what I am talking about. I once questioned belladelune's clown contouring, and I was attacked for asking a polite and honest question. Her followers were coming to my Google Circle and cursing me out. Seriously? It has gotten that bad, and most everyone wants to tip toe around it. No one wants to say anything for fear of getting verbally attacked and abused, and there's just something very wrong with that. Most everyone is so interested in hearing themselves talk about what they think they know that it has become an all out ego fest between YouTuber's and Professionals. Speaking only for myself, I just don't even go into the Youtube world anymore unless it's to watch one of Kristen's or Stephanie Nicole's videos. I'm all for respecting YouTube Guru's, they do things that I cannot and have no interest in doing: being relate-able and personable. I know what I am, and I cannot do what they do, so my hats off to anyone that has the drive and interest to have a YouTube channel. I do sincerely mean that. :)

Not every professional artist has a YouTube channel either. There are some of us that are just not into that, but that does not make me or anyone else less of a professional. In this industry, I am an absolute unknown, and I'm okay with that. I make a good living doing makeup, and that is my personal definition of success.

Aug 28, 2016

Kitty K.

Jacqueline, I feel my anger towards these MUE labelling themselves as MUA comes a lot from KJB. I've been a member of his IN MY KIT group.. and just seeing how he got treated or even how some of these companies give him a blind eye when he offers to review a product for gratis is upsetting.
'You aren't popular enough..'
This is a true professional... why is he not popular enough? How is that even a professional response? He still had thousand of IG followers, is the value of a professional really degrading because of 'popularity'?
I understand his frustration perfectly. At work, I get questioned, because Yahoo Answers/Google said so. I remember when one gentlemen became upset because I gave him a citation.. for crashing into a parked car.
'But google said you can't get tickets for crashing in a parking lot. I'm taking this to court!'
Apparently I work for Google now... lol.

And in some other groups, just reading these pro MUA vent their frustrations about clients. I mean, Bridal work is starting to sound absolutely terrifying now. MUA are being undervalued and it isn't fair. I've had people ask me to do their make up for pay and I've stated that I am not a professional, will not be doing it for pay or charging a price (If you want to leave me money, great.. thanks!) but if you're picking between a true pro and me, just to be a cheapo, I will happily direct you right back to the pro.

I hope that one day, MUA will hold their true value without question. I'm sure if these commenters attacking you would have gotten to see the advice and expertise you offer here, they'd stick their foot in their mouths. And everyone can one day see past the scamming some people do on YT. It's gotten to the point where a video could be nothing but 'coupon' codes and sponsor links, but no one questions it.

Aug 28, 2016

Jacqueline H.

Bridal work is not something I do a whole lot of... I just don't have the temperament for it. It's good money, and there's always work, but it gives me a headache. :/

I agree Kitty, it is beyond frustrating for professionals in your line of work and mine. I don't know if I could keep a straight face if someone told me " google said you can't get tickets for crashing in a parking lot." Say what? Good luck with that in court. Popular YouTube Guru's get mass gratis product. I understand why... it's smart business, but it used to be limited to smaller, more start up lines. Now we are starting to see some major lines going down this road, and it disappoints me. These lines aren't necessarily gifting or giving you product because they are particularly impressed with your skill level, they are doing it based on the amount of followers one has. In order to get a professional discount, we have to provide specific proof that verifies that we are actual working artists: Diploma, comp/zed card, tear sheets, IMDB credits, call sheets, your state ID, etc. etc. to even qualify for that professional courtesy, but I see YouTube Guru's getting boxes full of full size Urban Decay products for nothing. Hmmmm, okay. I'm not even going to pretend to understand the workings of the YouTube world, so I'll stop here.

Even some of the makeup artists on the In My Kit group do my head in. We wonder why there is such a continental divide between professional muas and YouTube Gurus...Some professional muas are just plain stuffy. Yes, I said it. I see posts in the IMK group all of the time from people asking for help and/or recommendations and in return they sometimes get completely mean and snotty answers. I'm not into making people feel bad for asking a question. We all started somewhere, so why not encourage instead of discourage.

The only thing that will get me or any professional artist a little bit stiff is when somebody says that there are no rules in makeup. Maybe for someone that does not work on a professional level that is true, and I can respect that; however, don't disrespect the profession by not respecting the fact that there are makeup rules that 'we' have to live by if we want to get paid. You cannot tell a professional artist that there is no right way or wrong way to highlight and contour a face; in our world, there most certainly is a right and a wrong way, and I think that is where there is just this huge disconnect. Professionals just see things very differently, and that is neither good or bad...it's just different. We are all makeup enthusiasts at heart, if we weren't, we wouldn't be here. I just think we could all work on being more open minded to both sides of the coin.  :)

Aug 28, 2016

Kathryn R.

I wish I could take this entire post, and transfer it to my makeup group on FB. So many of my members don't understand why I don't support YouTube tutorials. I walk a fine line with what I say, I don't want to stir up controversy, but damn this whole thread knocked the topic out the park. Yes yes yes to it all!!

Aug 28, 2016

Kitty K.

Thank you ladies for taking the time to share your thoughts. I hope we opened some eyes!

Update on my skin
Still felt dry so I soaked a mix of Drunk Elephants hydrating serum and Manuka honey... feels a lot better now! I didn't even want to wear foundation today after doing my eyes! I don't know how anyone would want to use that much powder.. so uncomfortable!

Aug 28, 2016

Liz S.

Ouch, lol this was a bit harsh but of course to each their own!

Aug 28, 2016

Liz S.

Agree 100% Charli ^ (:

Aug 29, 2016

Tia B.

Maybe it worked for Jaclyn Hill and you don't have that type of skin.

Aug 29, 2016

Alexis C.

I don't like Manny's makeup at all in that picture, I'm kind of laughing.

Aug 29, 2016

Liz S.

Lol oh lord. I believe there is a difference in stating an opinion, and in simply being a bully and bashing other people yall.

Aug 29, 2016

Tia B.

Thanks Liz but Kristen might have a point. I love Jaclyn Hill.

Aug 29, 2016

Liz S.

Totolly. Not saying anyone is wrong or right. There are just nicer ways of stating opinions, rather than "laughing" at others. IMO of course.

Aug 29, 2016

Liz S.

Totally* lol damn typos.

Aug 29, 2016

Kristen W.

Liz: Jaclyn is a naturally gorgeous girl. I've never said otherwise. But in my opinion her makeup techniques are not flattering that natural beauty. They are creating texture that isn't there and changing her face shape in a way that isn't flattering to her. The pictures I posted are straight from their instagram pages. It's not like I edited them to make them look the way they do and the only reason why I chose them was because they were the most unedited out of all the photos on their pages. Without the editing you can see the texture and unblended lines that baking has caused. My posts all were meant to point out how misleading certain techniques from youtube guru's can be compared to how they look in real life without the studio lights.

It's great that you both admire, Jaclyn. There's nothing wrong with that. But just because somebody doesn't share your admiration does not make them a bully.

Aug 29, 2016

Liz S.

That was not what I was referring to when I used the word bully & I actually don't consider myself a fan, lol I just don't appreciate some of the comments on this thread. But I respect your opinion Kristen.