Lime Crime: Questions and Concerns.

Jun 23, 2015

Kendra H.

Hey girls!!
I just had a really quick question for everyone just to see what everyone's thoughts were and if anyone actually knows the truth. I've never really been into the big high-quality make a friends because I just haven't had the money for it. In the last six months I've actually gotten a very very good job thanks to my college degree and now I make enough money that I can go out and splurge a little bit and I like to do that with my make up. And a few months ago I ordered from lime crime because a couple of my friends said how awesome they work. That their products are really good and that they just liked the products. So going through YouTube I actually found a whole thing about the controversy that surrounded line. And the problem I'm having is that I don't see any reputable sources. Everything from the scandal back in 2008 and all that with them being non-vegan and repackaging doesn't seem to come from a reliable source. It all seems to stem from a rumor that started and then really expanded their social media. And then I know that up three or four months ago they had a big hack and that information got stolen. So I was just wondering if anyone else has had experience with lime crime and how it was? My experience of ordering and getting my products is always been really good and I've never had another brand come close to their velveteens and things of that nature. So I'm not entirely sure what I should be doing should I also be boycotting one crime or should I continue to buy from a brand that has been nothing but good for me? I don't want to support a company or an owner that's not a good person or that lying but I'm not entirely sure how to feel when nothing that I'm reading is from an actual reliable news source or court records.

Jun 23, 2015

Justine S.

I've personally never bought from lime crime but after reading everything and seeing first hand how people were treated when they commented about the problem on instagram and things like that I would never personally buy from them. there is a post from a blog that shows when this girl spoke out against them in a review they threatened her with legal action and all kinds of stuff simply because she said she didn't like the makeup. I think they're sketchy.

Jun 23, 2015

Kendra H.

@Justine S.
Personally I haven't ever had a problem before I knew about all this so I'm still unsure about what to think. It does seem as if they have gotten better since the scandal broke a few years back... It's just a weird situation for me knowing I like the products and haven't had a problem... Hmmmm

Jun 23, 2015

Llesenia S.

I've never got anything from them.. But if you're concerned, get a prepaid card and you can buy things with it online that way your info stays safe!

Jun 23, 2015

Taylor G.

I have never had a problem buying from them and I enjoy their products a lot.

Jun 23, 2015

Taylor G.

The Venus palette is actually probably my favorite eyeshadow palette I've ever owned.

Jun 23, 2015

Alyx T.

The reason you don't see any reputable sources is because doe deere started threatening and trying to bribe bloggers, and started threatening to sue if they mentioned anything unpleasant about limecrime. But it's really no longer about the fact that they got hacked, it's about how doe deere handled it and how she's been lying. I have a huge rant posted on my tumblr, of gathered information here, I'll shorten it a bit and won't include the now broken links. So sorry if there's unnecessary brackets, there used to be sources but 90% of them either took it down or shut down their site due to lime crime harassing them.

I've never supported lime crime because it's not her idea. She basically stole the idea of someone who worked really hard on the packaging and product, and just changed the name. Said something along the lines of "I promise we're in this together" then ran off with the ingredient list to her own lab. Of course doe Deere had friends in high places and got her brand out in public media before the other girl could. Then doe threatened to sue her, so she had to stop her life's work. She also photoshopped a photo of sugarpill cosmetics next to a empty palette from eBay and said their repackaging in a direct tweet to her "childhood best friend" Amy, the founder of sugarpill.(the tweet 3 days prior was a congratulations tweet on hitting it big and getting with beautylish). Then started kissing her ass at said beautylish event. Then everything was fine, but she says their vegan. There's beeswax, carmine pigment (beetle shells used for red pigment) and many other non vegan ingredients. They also are basically now that she has nobody to steal off of, she basically is repackaging mica pigment packs (the ones you buy when you want to make your own, that you mix together with other pigment packs) she doesn't mix them though. To help combat the rising number of accusations that they simply repackage wholesale mica and lie about it, rather than make their own products, Doe recorded this video of her "making" an eyeshadow. She went into her limecrime factory and made an eyeshadow, by hand, without gloves and put it on her Instagram. It looked nothing like any product they sold, even though she states in the video "I'm making____" in the video. Then she captioned it with something like "one of you lucky lime crime buyers will get s special made eyeshadow" and everyone freaked out because she clearly wasn't using any sanitary measures. She doesn't wear a mask, or gloves, swatches with the same brush, adds black to darken a colour (anyone who did Art in school should know you add a colour's opposite) and most bizarrely of all, despite this apparently being her own original colour, she doesn't know the formula. Instead she guesses, approximating bits of blue and black wholesale mica until she gets something that looks roughly like her finished product.

No manufacturer could create permanent products this way, you'd have massive variations in shade mixing without a formula, weights or measures, not to mention the unsanitary conditions. And to top it off, she then claims she sends off the small samples to a lab to have professionals mix bits of mica together based on the small plastic bag because she still hasn't written it down, or measured anything.

But she quickly removed the video and started claiming it never happened. (I never saw it but people were saying in interviews she started saying it was in her kitchen and that she's never been to the line crime manufacturing lab. Which doesn't help anything) then indie companies like tkb trading (the site you get the pigment on) started making videos of how they make the product, some even mentioning how doe deere was unsanitary.

after that it was little things, colors changing and never being the same, even if 2 were purchased the same date, bad customer service, if they forgot about your order and you emailed/called, you'd get "we sent it, someone must have stole it. We can't control that. Order again" even though there was no longer a tracking number service on your products, when in the emails you get when purchasing it says there will be a tracking code once your products were shipped. There have been thousands of cases of this. People have even captured screenshots of their tracking number disappearing. Where one minute it's there, the next it says "this tracking number is no longer active" or a few have had their tracking numbers change orders, where one minute it's going to where they live, the next its going to another state. On 4th November of 2013, Doe released this video of her calling us all big fat liars and giant meaniebeasts for picking on her and being awful, terrible bullies, spreading lies about her and generally damaging her state of sparkly happy magical gleefulness, rolling in piles of cash. She obviously quickly pulled that.
Not long after her why-is-everyone-picking-on-me sob story (and mild blinkathon, I think she had something in her... both eyes, or perhaps is just trying to make them water), poor, tortured Doe further displayed how she's an uhm, totally defenceless victim, by attacking a blogger for her review(http://emeraldsrain.livejournal.com/149717.html) of the lipsticks.

The original review (http://emeraldsrain.livejournal.com/149717.html), wasn't particularly positive, but it was pretty unbiased and very well researched. Not long after posting it, on the 17th November, Lime Crime sent the blogger an e-mail threatening her with legal action if she didn't remove any and every post she'd ever written which referenced Lime Crime, including the unbiased reviews, and post a public apology. They didn't just threaten to have the content removed, they threatened to sue her personally, for posting her opinion that the lipsticks weren't so great.

I've seen the e-mail she was sent, and it was the nastiest legal threat letter I've seen, with added condescension thrown in. I'm not posting the entire thing with respect for the blogger's privacy, but will post a snippet, and mention that at one point the e-mail says "We expected greater restraint on your part." Which is bizarre to me, since it seems to suggest that they know her personally (which they don't), or that she's the next door neighbour's disobedient child (which she isn't). Doesn't seem like a fitting way for a company/lawyer/unicorn to address a full-grown woman.

Their demand seemed pretty simple:
"We expect that you immediately remove all posts pertaining to our company, its principals, and our products and issue a public retraction and apology on the [Blog Title] blog. Failure to comply by November 18th will result in the most strenuous legal action allowable under California law. Continued defamatory conduct will expose you to further, deeper legal liability.
Guide yourself accordingly.
Lime Crime"

Not an ounce of sparkly, shimmery, happy Unicorn Queen there, eh? What happened to you don't get anywhere by being mean, Doe?
The blogger complied, removing all posts referencing Lime Crime from her blog, and posting an apology which was surprisingly warm, sincere and heartfelt. She even added that she was sincerely sorry if Doe had been personally offended by anything she'd written, which was never her intent. You'd think they'd be happy with that, right?

Wrong.

In response to her immediate compliance with their demand, they sent her another e-mail. Apparently, the first apology wasn't good enough, so they wanted to dictate one to her, and demanded she post it verbatim - even though it makes her claim an alias which isn't hers. "Jessica L" is actually her cousin.

"We appreciate your compliance in removing your defamatory posts. However, we consider re-posting a heavily edited version of our email with a cheeky "retraction" a bad-faith effort. Please post the below retraction and apology verbatim, or we will be forced to proceed with litigation:

On several occasions, under the names of [removed at blogger's request], and "Jessica L." I published untrue articles and comments on various websites about Lime Crime Makeup, its proprietor, Doe Deere, and the company's products. This includes my article "Lime Crime - A History".

I hereby unreservedly withdraw the defamatory statements made by me and apologize publicly to Lime Crime. I also wish to express my regrets that these defamatory statements were ever published and admit that there was no ground for these defamatory statements."

Yeah, you didn't miss that. "Please post the below retraction and apology verbatim, or we will be forced to proceed with litigation." She was given a false statement to post, and threatened with legal action if she didn't. In other words, lie, or we'll sue you. (The bold was mine, by the way, in both instances.)

She deleted the old apology and replaced it with their scripted one, and I don't blame her in the slightest. Complying with such a ridiculous, completely anti-sparkly demand shows the company's attitude far better than any lipstick review could. The lipstick review which I linked above was re-posted by one of the blogger's readers, so that it could still be accessed.

Lime Crime's fans ("Futurettes" - you actually have to apply to be one) have been re-assembled into a 'street team' and encouraged to spread the word without search engines, by handing out promotional material to people in the real world. Outside of trying to silence the odd blogger, they've also been known to have unpleasant comments deleted on other websites (or try unsuccessfully, as in this case - read the Editor's note) as well as their own, and only allow positive reviews on their products on the shop page (it used to be only 5 or 4 stars, but predominantly-positive 3 stars are sneaking in, now). They also run an affiliates program, meaning that bloggers who refer customers to Lime Crime will earn commission if they buy. Now there's incentive for good, honest reviews. (If you want to actually find some honest ones, I'd suggest you look over on makeupalley.)

Then it was mostly little things like that till they got hacked. Now every website is able to get hacked, and almost all shopping websites say they'll refund any money you lost. Limecrime? Not so much. It was basically a "we can't control who hacks us" and little snide comments from doe, no apologies or anything. I don't think anyone got anything back from them and some were even missing products. They basically blamed the customer and didn't help anybody out. Most companies would automatically offer official letters so you could take it into your bank and let them know, get recarded, have proof of the hack for any strange purchases etc, but they even refused to do that when asked. Doe even went as far as insulting people who posted about it and blamed limecrime, publicly on Twitter and tumblr, using real names and usernames with big mean rants about how it isn't her fault instead of apologizing and owning up to it.

Really if you want to support them, its up to you. But I know doe deere has done enough for me to go "nope" forever to her products. If you love the eyeshadow, I really suggest buying from tkb trading. They are pretty exact. I'll include a swatch photo, it isn't mine but it's limecrime vs tkb trading pigment.

Sorry for the novel lol.

Jun 23, 2015

Kim W.

I bought one liquid lipstick from them back in April and my credit card information was stolen and someone used it to make online purchases for a loooot of money. Haven't bought from them since.

Jun 23, 2015

Shelley W.

Knowing people in the cosmetic industry from the manufacturing side none of them are impressed with Lime Crime and its owner. If you are happy with the product and have experienced zero issues then enjoy it. Its your wallet that has the ultimate say. But if your gut is speaking to you then I would buy elsewhere. Anytime one has doubt about a particular product/company that speaks volumes. I always err on the side of caution and follow what my gut tells me.

Jun 23, 2015

CPT- Lili R.

I personally saw when the limecrime owner took down a post because they were saying there credit card information was stolen and didnt take action till like 1 or 2 days later... As for personal experoience I tried to return a dried out velvetine and e mailed them and they never replied I contacted pay pal cuz I paid through them and it wasnt till pay pal messaged them that they responded trying to get a adress to swnd it back was hell they gave me 2 different addresses and didnt reaply to my concer of where to send it, it was just a hassle

Jun 23, 2015

Kendra H.

@Alyx T.
I think my biggest problem is that a lot of places this info is coming from isn't a place I'd consider reputable for news. It wouldn't matter if she threatened beauty bloggers because this scandal should have been covered at some point by a legit news source which she wouldn't have been able to do anything about. There are however a lot of reds flags here. Not sure I totally liked the way she handled herself even if the scandal was just rumors and not true... She also does just seem to be one of those people out for the money. But, then again, aren't most business people? It's a hard call but as long as I can find a product comparable to the velvateens I will be shopping elsewhere. Thank you for such a detailed response btw! Very helpful! :)

Jun 23, 2015

Kendra H.

@Shelley W.
I've just started having s lot of doubts based on what I've been reading. Especially about the vegan thing. I'm not vegan but I know people who are and it would break my heart to know they try so hard to find brands that fit their lifestyle and that someone lied to them. I'm looking at probably no longer purchasing from lime crime now...

Jun 23, 2015

Ari M.

Well she's racist and that's something you can see for herself with that china doll trash she tried to market.

Jun 23, 2015

Kendra H.

@Ari M.
What did she do? How do you know? I'm extremely new to the world of high quality makeup so I never really paid attention until like 2 months ago to any of this kind of stuff... I don't understand what you're talking about

Jun 23, 2015

Alyx T.

Kendra unfortunately she hasn't done anything illegal, but several you tubers and bloggers have covered it. But since it's not illegal, no legit news site will cover her just being an ass.

But I do know the kat Von d liquid lipsticks are a good dupe for the velvetines. I have a few and love them. I've never tried anything from line crime since the first thing I heard about them was about doe Deere stealing the company from that poor girl, but I've heard they're similar.

But I personally don't think it's worth buying a good product from a crappy brand. I think even my holy grails is stop purchasing if they pulled things like this. She just has no love for all the people that made her. I don't think I've ever heard her say or even write thank you for anything other than compliments on her appearance. In the end though it's really up to you whether you want to or not. Nobody will stop you from buying it, and it's up to you to decide if it's a breaking point on whether to buy from them or not.

Jun 23, 2015

Alyx T.

Also here's a good source on what Ari is talking about. It's a general list about doe Deere but in the last sections it's about the china doll "scandal" http://ohdeardoedeere.tumblr.com/post/65612552332/doe-deere-lime-crime-a-sordid-history.

Jun 23, 2015

Kendra H.

@Alyx T.
Ahhhh that makes sense... I guess blogger are going to be as legit as it gets lol
I'll have to Ty the kat Von d and see if it's similar. Thanks so much!!

Jun 24, 2015

Alicia C.

I haven't personally ordered any products from Lime Crime (heard about the credit card hacks along with the shipping issues that other individuals have experienced!) but am now very glad that I didn't purchase their products, no longer only for these reasons. Thank you so much for providing that link Alyx, you are really informed!

Jun 24, 2015

Alyx T.

Alicia - no problem! I have a passion for makeup and a hatred for people who take away someone's creative being like doe deere did, so once I heard about that I immediately researched to make sure it was true, and then kept an eye on her going down hill. And I'm slightly glad that finally everybody Is seeing the light and that she is getting less business, though disgusted with everything she's doing.

Jun 24, 2015

Cat C.

I would steer clear. They use non FDA approved ingredients and the founder is just shady. She's very passive aggressive and doesn't have any friends in the business because she's known for being kind of crazy.

Jun 24, 2015

Cat C.

Also, I feel like velvetines are overrated when you try other brands. Sooooooo many new liquid lipsticks are coming out that are safe and good :) I love the Jeffree Star, Stila, LA Girl, La Splash, KVD, ABH, Makeup Monsters Cosmetics, and Girlactik ones :) plus colourpop has some new ones coming out that are EXACT dupes for LC.